They can’t be Robin

I suspect among some Tim Drake and Dick Grayson fans can’t stand Jason Todd and Damien Wayne. Going so far to call them Mary Sues never mind that in-canon many other characters can’t stand either one of these two either and have flaws that lead to bad consequences, especially ol’ Jason. I actually think it’s got to do with the former two having the element of having to vicariously live through them.

That’s something you really don’t get with Batman. Not that it’s a bad thing but it does come dangerously close to the dreaded Mary Sue stereotype in which fan authors create characters to live vicariously through them in their favourite franchises and stories. Except in here that Dick and Tim act as built-in Mary Sues (same for Kitty and Felicity to some degree).

It’s not that they’re imperfect and flawless but that they’re very escapist characters, even moreso than Storm, Batman and Wolverine. Another real problem’s that making characters more ‘normalfag’ risks losing the appeal, with Jason and Damien being almost normie in a sense. Maybe that’s not the right thing to call them.

But Dick and Tim come off as somebody else’s blatant power fantasy for me to find them sincerely human.

Had he been born female?

That’s the weird thing I get with the way Tim Drake’s written seems more realistic or believable or less pandering (to a nerd audience) had he been female. Something like being concerned about his virginity has significantly more weight if he were female. If because nobody wants a girl to become sexually active and promiscuous and women are likelier to be punished or chastised if she bothered to have sex at all.

Thus needing to be overprotected and the idea about women being weaker and more manipulative than men are. Tim Drake could’ve been a really stereotypical female character. (Keep in mind computer programming used to be a girl’s thing too.) I mean some of the traits said about Tim could turned around and be nothing more than misogynistic stereotypes. Heck, Tim’s purpose is to cheer Batman up.

He’s really a Manic Pixie Dream Girl. The only thing needing to get my point straight’s if another writer bothered to deconstruct him using an existing female character like Caitlin Snow. But not too many do this, even if Teen Titans’ Terra’s come close, is because it’s too revealing as to be emasculating. Even if it makes more sense.

Bovarysme or the art of being Tim Drake

The state where a daydreamer (viewer or reader) imagine themselves as the character of a story, often a favourite one at that. Like I said, sometimes accusing characters of being author surrogates’s moot since a number of fictions are already semi-autobiographical to an extent, whatever extent. (An author might admit that part of his fictions are based on his personal trauma for instance.) Not to mention Canon Sues are far likelier to be supporting characters.

Maybe not exactly but since a good number of fictions and written works in general can/tend to be semi-autobiographical, with authors sometimes basing characters and stories after personal incidents in whatever manner so keep in mind most author surrogates aren’t (necessarily) Mary Sues and generally aren’t. The real Canon Sues are usually likelier to be supporting characters, the deliberate audience surrogates if you will.

Maybe not necessarily exactly but it’s parsimonious that audience surrogates aren’t necessarily the main protagonists (or main focus) most of the time. They’re blank slates enough to be made into Mary Sues whilst when it comes to the protagonists there’s a lot we know about their struggles, flaws and virtues. Maybe not necessarily or always but they do deserve to be in the spotlight.

Keep in mind supporting characters aren’t always Canon Sue and whilst a good number of supporting characters are and can be author surrogates, they too aren’t necessarily Mary Sues either. But an audience surrogate’s often likely to be a supporting character. A spectator against the main character whom everybody else are supposed to observe from the outside.

Audience surrogates are thus likelier to be co-opted as fanfiction Mary Sues. Consider what’s been done to Willow of Buffy fame or more recently Felicity Smoak from Arrow. If you want a good example of a male counterpart, look no further than Tim Drake and Dick Grayson. As in these two were purposely created as audience surrogates and more often than not (heck even moreso than Batman) function as power fantasies.

It wouldn’t matter how much tragedy befell them, Dick dates an alien refugee and Tim’s got a harem of sorts including a groupie whilst Batman’s an aloof jerk whose well-known girlfriend’s a stereotypical cat owner and has a bastard son (whom the audience can’t stand) with another woman. I mean they’re bigger Mary Sues than Batman will ever be under my logic.

Maybe not exactly but still.

Not so pink

It’s not that they don’t wear dresses or pink but more in the sense of having a weird detached sort of femininity (well more parsimoniously, a detached androgyny) that feels really phantasmal. A kind of Virgin Mary/Madonna like character but for nerds. She’s got a weird femininity that’s relatable to both female and male nerds but also scarcely resembles the average woman. Because if she does, she’d seem boring.

It’s one thing to be into boy things but generally it’s met with both suspicion and sexualisation that bothers such women either way. The fantasy woman’s like that but with none of the former. More often than not, these characters have cult followings. It’s not that DC’s Stephanie Brown’s unpopular but that she’s got a very vocal cult following compared to let’s say Mills and Boons.

The latter being something that many more women are into. As with fashion magazines and fashion in general. Whilst it’s been debated whether if men and women are this different (certain intersex conditions blur it by accident), these characters tend to have a detached androgyny that’s nonthreatening to sexist male nerds.

There’s a fine line between the emasculating androgyny that male nerds hate and the detached androgyny that they like. (Like I said, the muses of courtly love were at least knowingly inaccessible when idealised, the girl next door by contrast seems pretentious in her accessibility.) Paradoxically speaking, they can’t be real girly girls.

Because if they were really feminine (as in liking manufactured pop music, fashion, bad taste, whiny) they’d seem off-putting. Like as if the really ‘pink’ characters get classed as femme fatale types or othered in some manner. Meanwhile the inaccessible Manic Pixie types get pedestalised and considered ‘relatable’.

It’s not that they’re unrelatable but that they appeal to a really cult audience a lot more when you think about it.

Damian, Damian

Like I said before about a post on Looney Tunes characters, sometimes the very concept predates the character’s eventual appearance (or makeover should Caitlin Snow become a werewolf on the Flash given DC already got one in House of Mystery). So the idea of Batman marrying Catwoman certainly existed in some earlier stories, most notably where they begat and raised Helena Wayne.

Helena being essentially and practically Damian Wayne’s prototype (Batman siring a child with a villain) so as others have argued before, it’s actually Damian who’s more organic than Tim Drake is. In the sense that there’s a precedent for the sort of character Damian may become, whether as Batman’s biological child with a villain (Helena Wayne) or as a wayward Robin (Jason Todd).

Just as there’s a precedent for a black Jimmy Olsen (Lois Lane literally became black) though it can be argued execution can play a big role in an interpretation’s reception and staying power.

Not so beholden

I guess sometimes it doesn’t take much of a hater to point out that Kitty Pryde and Tim Drake (and anything else) aren’t always quite what their fans make them out to be. Though that involves objectively pointing out something like say Kitty Pryde being hot-tempered and gullible (as in she’s always a pawn for villains and tends to lose her crap almost every time from what I remember) or Tim Drake being way more sexually active than Jotaro Kujo would ever be.

It’s not that Jotaru Kujo lacks flaws, he’s one of those JJBA characters who aren’t as openly perverted (he may’ve read smut but that could be about it) as far as I remember or know. Though I suspect with both Kitty Pryde and Tim Drake deliberately targeting a much narrower audience than JJBA did in the 1990s and early 2000s, inevitably the former two’s fans are likelier to ignore or gloss over such characteristics as they live vicariously through them.

Even though ironically other characters are very much them as expected by fans. Something like Jotaro being way calmer than Tim is (not that he can’t get angry) or Halo Jones actually indulging in things most other, albeit real life women do like shopping and having a dog (Kitty Pryde doesn’t seem to shop and tends to do boy things more). I’m not that fond of Kitty and Tim but then again this essay proves that it doesn’t take much of a hater as much as you just have to objectively point out things.

Albeit things that don’t sound sweet at first but still.

Not that Tim lacks a personality

Like I said in another post, it’s not that Tim Drake lacks a personality. He does but contrary to his fans and respective author(s) he’s actually more sexual, aloof and temperamental than they expect him to be. (Jotaro Kujo by contrast is aloof but helpful and merciful.) In the same manner, Kitty Pryde’s rather temperamental and gullible to boot. It’s not so much that Jotaro’s any more well-adjusted either (or at least not without unlikable flaws like aloofness).

But being that unfond of Kitty and Tim makes it easier to see their flaws. The same can be said of anything or anybody else even if the critics sometimes aren’t always that hateful. It’s like knowing that person might be maladjusted because they tend to be independent out of distrust (bad experiences, overly scolding/demanding peers, neglect, bullying/abuse) and tend to stonewall you for wanting to know them more (or that they don’t remember things when asked).

Basta, it takes more indifference (or suspicion) to nitpick flaws more easily though keep in mind those making the criticisms aren’t always that hateful either.

Something about that drake

I think I have a draft version somewhere in my other computer about Tim Drake. For some reason based on what I’ve read, he seems hornier and more emotional than fans make him out to be. I even felt like comparing him to Jojo’s Jotaro Kujo in that he actually resembles the very character Tim Drake fans make Tim out to be. (It also helps that Jotaro’s one of those Jojo characters that I know of who are neither that emotional/irritable nor as openly perverted/horny, given my weak memory.)

Not that Jotaro’s flawless as he can be careless to his own daughter (though she may’ve been imprisoned against her will) and he’s aloof. Tim’s also aloof but he can be a bit of a jerk and a grumpy jerk at that. (Jotaro’s a stern jerk but helpful to his relatives.) In the like manner, whilst some Kitty Pryde fans seem to describe her as upbeat and spunky she comes of as gullible yet moody/temperamental to me. Maybe it’s me being unfond of them enough to nitpick their flaws.

It (also) doesn’t help that so far only Wolverine, Bart Allen and Conner Kent actually live up to fan hype well. My impression of Tim Drake’s that of an aloof yet sexually active and sometimes temperamental young man. My impression of Kitty Pryde’s that of a naive yet temperamental young woman. Both of them may’ve changed a lot but since I’m not too fond of them I see their flaws more easily.

Werewolves and Frosty Robins

I still get the impression that turning Caitlin Snow into a werewolf be disastrous enough to result in a domino effect, especially in whoever gets to be Killer Frost after her and it’s going to be Tim Drake. Especially if he gets his powers from Mister Freeze, lashes out against his teammates and viciously attacks Bart. Bart by then becomes exactly like his grandfather Barry if Tim’s now his Captain Cold.

Not to mention Bart becomes the brains of Young Justice now that Tim’s gone to the dark side and never coming back. Same for Caitlin Snow becoming a werewolf, especially the one who killed Wally West prompting Barry to beat her up for it. Tim becomes Bart’s punching bag. Cait becomes Barry’s punching bag. Not much difference between grandson and grandfather.

The only real difference’s that Caitlin’s now remade into an entirely different character who’s much more wayward and unpredictable than most would’ve expected and Tim practically lacks a solid persona of his own. Nightwing’s become his own person, Tim flits between personae. Turning him into Killer Frost’s not any better but not when Cait’s now a werewolf he’s got to fill in that role.

Even if he’s now Captain Cold II.

Tim Drake is Killer Frost

Or rather the Killer Frost DC needs, not what fans want now that Caitlin Snow’s a werewolf. Given how much more damaging turning Caitlin Snow into a werewolf is, if DC were to figure out to preserve the Killer Frost persona it would have to passed down to a man like Tim Drake. But this also leads to further consequences like Tim being an actual villain having inherited his powers from Mr Freeze and him joining Suicide Squad, thus necessitating Bart to be the brains of Young Justice.

If Tim Drake becomes Killer Frost after Caitlin Snow becomes a werewolf, Bart Allen would end up being more like his namesake grandfather. Not that him becoming drastically different lacks a precedent but the change here’s justified this time not so much because his predecessor’s gone only to reappear (as what happened to him in the 2000s) but because he’s filling in a role Tim left just so the latter would become Killer Frost because Caitlin’s now a werewolf.

(Like I said before, turning Caitlin into a werewolf brings out the Red Riding Hood and Jojo undertones in that she killed a redhead and gets beaten up by somebody else and get him and his writers/actors accused of hating dogs despite contrary evidence.)

I think Tim as Killer Frost would be much of a resounding success like turning Cait into a werewolf is. Not to mention this also inevitably results in Bart in the brains of the group, thus making him a lot more like his grandfather in ability and attitude. If Bart’s a spitting image of his grandfather, once Tim becomes Killer Frost then he’s become his Captain Cold when you think about it.