If you believe Pete Scathe, of all the Goth bands he enlisted or implied (The Cure and Siouxsie and The Banshees were either former punk bands or New Wave acts, Sisters of Mercy might be hard rock, UK Decay being a forgotten post-punk band and The Cult stopped being a Goth band later on) only Bauhaus seems unambiguously Goth. Not just because of the band’s presentation but also direct involvement in the Goth scene proper, via The Batcave.
Not that other Goth bands didn’t do anything similar and Duran Duran originally did video clips for underground clubs. (Since some members admit to listening to Sex Pistols and Japan, Duran Duran could’ve been more post-punk at some point.) But it’s parsimonious to say there’s a difference between The Cure and Specimen (the latter’s actually that involved in Goth clubs). No surprise, The Cure’s way more mainstream.
To put it this way, Walt Disney and most of his contemporaries did do what’s apparently furry media but had little involvement in it. Same with anybody who does zoomorphic humans and anthropomorphic animals even to this day. However those who did Albedo and Rowrbazzle were actually part of the furry subculture as are some contemporary animators and cartoonists.
(Comes to think out of it, Rowrbazzle’s said to preempt the furry scene proper.)
So to speak, it’s not that The Cure’s arguably any less Goth but not that steeped into the scene that it’s readily mainstream compared to let’s say Specimen. Replace The Cure with Disney and Specimen with Omaha the Cat Dancer, it’s practically the same.
I suspect that in Robert Smith’s case, he didn’t like being called Goth either it’s reductive or something else. Actually since he wasn’t so involved in the Goth scene much (if you believe Pete Scathe), that it would be that easy to disassociate himself from it. If you believe some Goths, even if he wasn’t involved in the Goth scene much he did help inadvertently create it with others.
To put it this way, people like Beatrix Potter and Walt Disney had little to do with the furry despite creating the template as they weren’t involved in it (furries proper had yet to appear). Same with their colleagues, heirs and contemporaries. On one hand, as they weren’t involved much in the furry subculture they’d easily disassociate themselves from it.
On the other hand, they still laid the blueprint. Same with The Cure, Sisters of Mercy and Siouxise and The Banshees. The former two having frontmen who refuse to be called Goths (logically somebody who does anthromorphic animals for kids’ books might not be part of the furry subculture). I’d say it’s not that they have no influence on Goth.
Or furry as they still influenced it. The subcultural sensibility’s much more specific than this.
As strange as it sounds, there are some furries who’re practising Christians and I did go to a website that proves this. To put it this way, one woman who worked on the Care Bears franchise is a Christian. That’s not to say Christian furries and Christian furry stories aren’t nonexistent.
They do exist if you look hard enough, Gideon Bear’s website is proof. There might be many more of them somewhere offline and online. Whatever they do, whoever they are if they do what’s right and make the Word approachable, then’s that good and fine with me.
If you’re a Christian furry, you can respond here and I’ll respond back.
Adult Disney fans did exist before the coming of the Disney Princess brand, especially in Europe as far as the love for Disney comics goes. Possibly furry fandom to some extent but anything with anthromorphic/zoomorphic characters could do the same. Same with animation fans in general. But it may be parsimonious to say that a good number of adult female Disney fans exist in part of the way they’re brought up.
Especially in the circumstances at the time where they’d be exposed to not only Disney Channel but also a lot of Disney merchandising throughout their teens that they’d inevitably be lifelong fans. Not all of them but some of them do. I guess the princess marketing thing worked. Sometimes in a way nobody expected to especially with some of those women getting Disney themed outfits, tattoos and marriages.
(I recall how one Redditor say that they knew of somebody who got into Disney to escape a bad life.)
Not all Disney fans are female but it’s safe to say the extensive use of princess marketing would’ve inevitably created a good number of adult female Disney fans.
I have a feeling if a famous mangaka were to criticise the anime industry for sexualising teenaged and underaged girls as well as incest and the like, some anime fans might not be comfortable with this. It’s like how Jesse Hamm said that why some comic books are misogynistic is because they don’t want their smut criticised. If true, that does explain why some people are eager to criticise violence but don’t want their favourite smut to be critiqued the same way and accuse critics of misogyny.
If it’s going to be a famous mangaka, this would worsen matters. I could go on arguing that anime fandom and industry, especially non-furry ones, can be just as depraved as furry media are when it comes to openly displaying perversion even of the crushed animal variety. There was an anime that featured erotic breastfeeding, another had urine fetish. That and the many anime that apparently celebrate sissification, incest and paedophilia.
When it comes to guro, it looks like non-furry anime media likely has its own version of the — pooping nipples thing that furries are often accused of. That’s not to say I condone furry but it feels so unfairly criticised when anime could be just as perverted. If a famous mangaka chastised it in addition to converting to Christianity, anime fandom might be in for a shocker and possibly the end of anime as we know it.
Whilst it’s not necessarily wrong to admire or at least be inspired by the Goth subculture and the like as much as you need more experiences, willingness and some kind of luck to avoid objectifying people a lot (I know this), from the archived imageboard threads about Goth women in animation it’s not uncommon for some people to have a ‘fetish’ for these.
Actually somewhere on Goth.net there were already people talking about this, long before the Goth girlfriend meme showed up. Or rather the meme in its current form as there could’ve been already people fixating over Goth women before. Perhaps, this may be because I know of a man who obsesses over those.
Again not necessarily wrong but when coupled with his apparent misogyny, it’s like as if Goth women generally exist to be pedestalised. Maybe not always so but still. (For all his misogyny and disdain for male crossdressing, it’s not uncommon for Goth men to crossdress as if either he has double standards or ignores* it.)
It seems parsimonious that Goth women almost always exist as muses for writers and cartoonists but seldom as the main character let alone a more human one at that. The only one that I can think of is Nemi whose own creator used to illustrate rock albums (which actually gives her an edge over others when it comes to convincing Goth characters).
And Nemi might possibly be the most mainstream comic to feature a non-stereotypical Goth/alternative girl at all. Maybe not always the case but it seems the Goth Girlfriend is practically and essentially another Manic Pixie Dream Girl, whose quirkiness inspires the drab protagonist. I also honestly think the GRDG also exists in live action.
But again the Goth woman’s almost always a muse, quirky girl or love interest but never the main character who’s an actual human being.
*Pardon if it sounds elitist but I think the Goth mentality’s a lot more specific than listening to dark bands, dressing in black and liking spooky things since you can like horror movies without being a member of the Goth subculture. Much like how you enjoy Beatrix Potter stories or dress up in animal costumes without being a furry.
It’s not that I like furries nor do I dislike them but it’s sometimes unfair to single them out as perverts when anime fandom and anime industry are just as prone to harbouring and cultivating similar degrees of depravity. Not just with sexualised minors where some anime fans and professionals alike were arrested for possessing child porn.
But also where words like guro evidently came from the Japanese. Even absent guro and paedophilia, both the anime industry and fandom can be similarly just as depraved as the furries (same with non-furries and non-anime fans alike to some extent). There was one cartoonist who got hired by the Macross crew to do animation.
But such a story involved non-absorbent diapers. Another anime also involved sexualised urination. Though keep in mind there are anime studios and professionals who do take responsibility. The real problem may be that though not all anime fans are this horny or perverted and there are those who do take issue.
But that it’s so common to anime that it’s expected yet also off-putting to people, even in Japan.